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Testimony of Randolfe H. Wicker to Congress, February, 1998

 

 

 

 

CLONING: LEGAL, MEDICAL, ETHICAL, AND SOCIAL ISSUES

HEARING

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON

HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENT

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

____________________

February 12, 1998

____________________

Serial No. 105-70

____________________ 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1998

46-728CC

For sale by the U.S., Government Printing Office

Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, D.C. 20402

ISBN 0-16-056510-3  

_________________________________________________________

The Chair would now recognize Mr. Wicker for up to 5 minutes of an opening statement

 STATEMENT OF RANDOLFE WICKER

 Mr. Wicker:  Thank you very much. We especially appreciate the opportunity to be here today, because we represent a viewpoint that's rarely heard in chambers such as this. We have a basic approach to the whole issue, which we capsulized in something called the Clone Bill of Rights.

Every person's DNA is his or her personal property. To have that DNA cloned into another extended life is art and parcel of his or her right to control his or her own reproduction. Constitutionally, that right is assigned to neither State legislators, to the Federal Government, nor to religious authorities. It is reserved to each and every citizen to decide if, how, and when to reproduce. And finally, research, not rhetoric, and/or freedom limiting legal restrictions is the only way to discover the real effects of cloning. Restrictions on research into cloning of humans should not even be considered; unless real social harm can be demonstrated.

With that being said, I would like to emphasize that we oppose both bills pending. When made to choose between the two, some of the literature I've supplied you with today, has us supporting the Feinstein bill, because we feel that's much less destructive to scientific research. But from our point of view, it's like choosing—not just two evils—I can either choose death by lethal injection a la Feinstein, or death by fire with the First bill.

I think that it's very important that the people understand that human cloning technology will eliminate all human infertility. Government interference in this area is blatantly immoral, unconstitutional. To deny an infertile couple of access to a reproductive method is equivalent to forcible sterilization by the State.

I will refer you to "Human Cloning: Infertility and Reproductive Freedom", which I've submitted as part of my testimony, by Mark Eibert, an attorney in California, who's a legal representative of infertile couples, and who intends to challenge the law there, that was recently passed.

I think that people are not aware—certainly, I became aware after becoming involved in this issue—of the circumstances about infertility clinics. It cost $20,000 to try once. You have about 19.6 percent chance. After five tries, after spending $100,000 the rate of success rarely goes over 46 percent. That means today, couples can still spend $100,000 at a reputable good clinic, and still have less than a 50/50 chance of success.

Fertility doctors are the highest paid doctors of all. Some feel within our group, that they are opposed to cloning, not only for ethical reasons, but also for economical reasons, because once cloning technology is perfected, there will no longer be 5, 6, 10 tries at $20,000 and maybe even $30,000 a try.

The only credible argument that's come up, which I have found against cloning, is the danger. And yet, with IVF and their fertility drugs are legal, although they create higher risk of miscarriage, multiple births, and associated birth defects, the decision regarding risk is left to the patient. In effect, outlawing cloning denies Scientists their freedom of inquiry, as well as denying patients their freedom to decide how much risk they're willing to take.

Nobel laureates have all recommended that you people have the FDA regulate this. I think that's a very good idea. I mean, these are Nobel laureates. I say let the scientists run science, and let the theologians run the churches.

Second, the religiously based restrictions, which seems to be something that's very much brought up constantly, is this religion, produced by various people on human cloning—have no place in the law. They violate religious freedom. Those who believe cloning offers a partial temporary immortality, have the right to secure an extended life for their own genotype. I might say however, that this is a matter of debate, even with our own membership.

Some feel the term is an oxymoron, and one's later born twin would probably choose to reproduce the old-fashioned way anyway, so therefore the lifetime of one's genotype would only be extended for one lifetime more. However, human cloning does change at least, slightly, the traditionally clear line between life and death. If even after death, a later born identical twin can be born, carrying the originator's genotype into another life, doesn't that somehow deny death as traditional totality?

Already, a Montreal-based group, the Raelians—which who I have no association whatsoever, I might say—are virtually preaching eternal or extended life through cloning. They offer to clone you for $200,000 at their Bahamas facility, which we had found out doesn't really exist.

 

Mr. Burr:        Mr. Wicker—

 

Mr. Wicker:     In the years ahead, religious beliefs such as these are likely to proliferate. You may believe that this appeal will be very limited. The public is opposed to human cloning. We all know that; 75 to 90 percent are opposed.

 

 Mr. Burr:     Mrs. Wicker, I would ask you to summarize as quickly as you can.

 

Mr. Wicker:   Okay. Well, anyway, just like I said, when we went to Central Park and gave out clone—*badges, 75 to 90 percent of the people accepted those badges. And finally—like the last thing is, outlawing human cloning technology will only relegate it to second-rate facilities. These reckless, irresponsible adventurers like Richard Seed, may well cause deformity and human suffering.  

The world's most famous child, the first human being conceived though cloning, will soon be born. We all should do everything possible to see that the child is born normally, healthily, and under the best circumstances. Thank You.

 

Mr. Burr:        Is there any anybody at the table that believes that the Dolly experiment has been replicated, or has any knowledge of it?

 

Mr. Wicker:   There’s a New York Times report that the cow— supposedly a cow that was done in that fashion is soon to be born.  At least its pregnancy is underway in that regard, I believe. The calves that were born were done with the fetal cells, but there’s supposed to be a calve soon to be born which will replete the Dolly experiment, as I recall reading.

 

 Mr. Burr:       Thank you.r. W

 

 

___________________________________________

 

Testimony of Randolfe H. Wicker to Congress, February, 1998

 

Prepared Witness Testimony
The Committee on Energy and Commerce
W.J. "Billy" Tauzin, Chairman

Issues Raised by Human Cloning Research
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
March 28, 2001
12:00 Noon
2123 Rayburn House Office Building


Mr. Randolphe H. Wicker
Founder, Clone Rights United Front
Spokesman, Human Cloning Foundation
506 Hudson Street
New York, New York, 10014


Summary of Testimony 

Points to be made in testimony: 

·  Cloning is a part of every citizen’s reproductive right. 

·  Stem cell research is based on human cloning technology. 

·  The FDA has no authority over the fertility industry. 

·  Cloning is part of every American’s right to religious liberty. 

·  The Raelian movement is a legitimate religious movement. 

·  The Raelian movement and its CLONAID have behaved fraudulently. 

·  There is no need for new laws, only enforcement of existing ones. 

·  The dangers of animal cloning are not applicable to human cloning. 

·  The international consortium, which includes Dr. Zavos, is a cautious, professional, experienced team.  The regulation of medicine should be left to physicians.  Medicine and science are not areas in which unknowledgeable politicians should meddle.

Testimony before the house subcommittee on oversight and investigation

Thank you for inviting me to testify today.  This hearing is being held because everyone knows that human cloning is going to happen.  As Dr. Zavos points out: “The Genie is out of the bottle”.

As a human cloning activist during the past four years, I have viewed with alarm the growing public hysteria surrounding this issue.  The general public is both highly opinionated and totally misinformed regarding human cloning.

Cloning technology is a scientific achievement as significant as the conquering of smallpox, although less important than the discovery of the printing press.  Cloning technology has achieved monumental importance due to its central role in stem cell research.

Despite all the hand-wringing and declarations against the cloning of human beings by biotech companies, stem cell research cannot be separated from human cloning.  The same technology, inserting a cell into an enucleated egg, is central to both.

The only difference between the two is that, in stem cell research, a tiny embryo no larger than the dot at the end of this sentence is killed through transforming it into a stem cell culture.  In human cloning, the same embryo would be implanted into a woman’s womb and allowed to develop into a wanted and loved child.

The general public supports stem cell research because it promises to revolutionize medicine.  The same public opposes human cloning, which itself is simply a medical cure for the human disability called infertility.

The FDA has issued invalid legally unenforceable politically popular feel-good regulations forbidding human cloning in American fertility clinics.  Mark Eibert will elaborate on this later.

The Government that governs best governs least.

The first and most central issue raised by human cloning involves each individual citizen’s reproductive rights.

The decision by individual citizens about having children and their manner of conception has always been a decision made by a patient in consultation with her or his doctor.

 Politicians in Washington and politicians in state capitols have no business deciding for American citizens who can bear children and how they can have them.

The second critical issue raised by human cloning involves each individual citizen’s right to religious belief and practice.

I testified to the U S House of Representatives Committee on Commerce, Subcommittee on Health and Environment, on Thursday, February 12, 1998.  I would like to quote a short part of that testimony before tackling the difficult situation currently facing us.

I would also like to note that, on this issue, I am speaking for myself and not as an official representative of The Human Cloning Foundation.

“…Religiously based restrictions…have no place in the law.  They violate religious freedom.  Those who believe cloning offers a partial temporary immortality have the right to secure an extended life for their genotype...human cloning does change, at least slightly, the traditionally clear line between life and death.

“If, even after death, a later born identical twin can be born carrying the originator’s genotype into another life, doesn’t that somehow deny death its traditional totality?

[An appropriate phrase might be, “ Right To Life equals Right to Clone.”]

“Already, a Montreal-based group, the Raelians- with which I have no association whatsoever, I might say-are virtually preaching eternal or extended life through cloning.  They offer to clone you for $200,000 at their Bahamanian facility, which we have found out doesn’t really exist.” (See page 111 of February 12, 1998, Testimony to the Subcommittee.)

I am submitting to this committee a copy of a press release and invitation sent to me on October 8, 2000 by Nadine Gary on behalf of CLONAID, “The First Human Cloning Company,” entitled “HUMAN CLONING WILL ALLOW GAY COUPLES TO HAVE CHILDREN,” I ask that it be included in the official printed record.

 (See Attachment 1)

I am also submitting the opening few paragraphs of an article I wrote and which was published in GayToday, www.gaytoday.badpuppy.com <http://www.gaytoday.badpuppy.com> that gives context and perspective to the CLONAID press release with the same name. (See Attachment 2)

I am also submitting two other articles filled with valuable information.  The first is an editorial from www.clonerights.com <http://www.clonerights.com> entitled “Religious Group Hijacks Human Cloning Movement,” January 8, 2001. (See attachment 3)

  The second is one of many items sent to me to be shared with the press.  It is titled “A Christian’s Letter to CLONAID.” (See Attachment 4)

Virtually all media, with the exception of Wired Magazine’s exceptional cover story by Brian Alexander (February 2001), have ignored the outrageous hype and attempted fraud perpetuated by the Raelian Movement.  Apparently, you can get away with almost anything in the United States if you just do it in the name of religion and called yourself a faith-based enterprise.

Freedom of speech does not give anyone the right to falsely scream “Fire!” in a crowded theater.  Freedom of religion does not give anyone the right to commit fraud.

There is no need for new legislation or regulation on either reproductive freedom or religious belief.  There is only a need to prosecute “fraud” whenever it occurs regardless of the person or group perpetrating it.

Finally, the last critical question raised by human cloning technology revolves around “who” should control and regulate it or whether control and regulation are even possible.  It is nearly impossible to draft legislation to outlaw reproductive cloning without harming medical and scientific research in the process.

It is mind-boggling that most major media equate declarations by a group of space-cadet wackos about their “secret lab” where they are claiming that they are actually cloning a human being to the professional, responsible, cautious attempt to perfect cloning technology by two of the world’s most renowned and experienced fertility doctors.

This is like comparing “moon rocks” to polished Earthly diamonds.  Drs. Zavos and Antinori speak in terms of “perfecting techniques,” which will make human cloning safe and viable.

During a personal meeting less than a week ago, Dr. Zavos pointed out to me that he was “not selling anything”-compared to the Raelains who tell the media that “he who pays the most gets cloned first.”

Dr. Zavos’ services are not for sale.  I believe that he is as he appears to be-a dedicated warm human being seeking to perfect a narrowly-focused therapy for disabled infertile couples so that they might have children genetically related to themselves.

For instance, I would not qualify under Dr. Zavos’ and Dr. Antinori’s criteria.  They have set “narrow limits” and “strict guidelines” regarding their goals.  I would suggest that those interested read a leaflet about the 62-year-old woman who had a healthy child with Dr. Antinori’s help, which I will not submit as testimony unless requested by the Committee.

The “sound bite” for today is  “Cloning is Dangerous Because Animal Experiments Have Shown It to be So.”  I would suggest that journalists read carefully the detailed screening procedures that will be undertaken before human cloning is even attempted by this professional international consortium.

I see a line-up of witnesses ready to testify to this committee.  We have Arthur Caplan, whose voice has so crowded out other voices within bioethics that he is recognized as an American secular Pope.  In Time Magazine, he said, “The short answer to the cloning question is that anybody who clones somebody today should be arrested.”

Dr. Zavos and I have decided to “depose” this self-anointed secular Pope by refusing to debate him.  See our leaflet “Let Other Bioethicists Be Heard,” which this Committee may include in its publication if it so chooses.  How does one engage in civilized discourse with a man who begins the debate declaring that you should “be arrested”?

This “moral authority” who would have us arrested was the first ethicist sued because of his involvement in the unnecessary death of Tucson teenager Jesse Gelsinger.  I would suggest that HE should be the one “arrested.”  This is a man who has contributed to the death of a healthy young American citizen.  I object to his being allowed to testify to this committee.  His “morality” has been the subject of legal action.

I also see that you have another anti-cloning witness, Rudolf Jaenisch, from MIT.  I listened carefully to this man’s arguments on “The Charlie Rose Show.”  Basically, he argued that Dolly, the sheep conceived through cloning, might be “mentally retarded and/or schizophrenic.”

I would appreciate Rudolf Jaenisch supplying me with an “intelligence test” or a psychological screening test to see if an apparently normal sheep is or is not schizophrenic. 

 

You can’t win with these people.  When I testified in 1998, the skeptics were asking if “we could be sure ‘Dolly’ wasn’t a fraud?”  After that, the naysayers said “Dolly” was seven years old when she was born. Well, we now have five successive generations of cloned mice, and their telomeres seem to indicate that “cloning” actually increases life expectancy.  Dolly, if she was six or seven years of age at birth, must be the oldest living sheep in memory to have had offspring just recently.

I am not an “expert” in sheep menopause.  I refer you to Rudolf Jaenisch on that issue.  And please, get me that “intelligence test” and that “personality evaluation” test for sheep so we can evaluate his allegations.

Now, we face the great issue of animal deformities that resulted from animal experiments.  This is the “big issue” this week.

Well, to begin, let us say “two year old cloning technology and/or studies are equivalent to ten year old computer technology.”   Adults come to this issue (and I might well be one of them) with emotionally-based biases around which they construct intellectual defenses.

I would ask any thinking person to consider the facts:  the international consortium is working to “perfect” human cloning technology.  Indeed, because it is taking a cautious professional approach, it might well be faced with disastrous results from those “crazies” seeking money, fame and glory for their “prophet.”

I would point to an extraordinary situation in Brazil (Economist, July 22, 2000) in which science funding is insulated from the whims of politicians and the general public’s hysteria.  Shouldn’t this be the model for the United States of America?

I respectfully submit this testimony to this committee and hope that the information contained in it helps shape constructive political and social policy for the new

Millennium.

Cloningly yours,

Randolfe H. Wicker

Founder, Clone Rights United Front, www.clonerights.com <http://www.clonerights.com>

Director, Human Cloning Foundation, www.humancloning.org <http://www.humancloning.org>

 


The Committee on Energy and Commerce
2125 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-2927
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Cloning:  Legal, Medical, Ethical, and  Social Issues: Hearing Before the Subcommittee on Health and Environment of the Committee on Commerce House of Representatives  A copy of the transcript of Randolfe H. Wicker's testimony before the United States Congress regarding the issue of cloning.


 The following declaration is with permission from    Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 17, Number 3

Declaration in Defense of Cloning and the Integrity of Scientific Research 


Please return to Clone Rights United Front index Back to Top or visit our sister sites The Reproductive Cloning  Network at  http://www.reproductivecloning.net  or The Human Cloning Foundation's Home Page at: http://www.humancloning.org